Does it bang with Noué Kirwan

Elle 0:00
New a Kawan is a Bronx native but was raised by coastal. She's a UMass Amherst grad who currently lives in New York City. And when she's not consuming copious amounts of media, binging TV shows, devouring movies, hoarding comic books and inhaling romance novels. She's writing, dreaming up all sorts of interesting lives and passionate loves. Welcome new way to steam scenes. I'm excited to have you here.

Noue 0:26
Thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here.

Elle 0:29
This is like this. Okay, so I mean, we were in the green room talking for way too long. Because that's just like, you are so much fun. So I'm super excited to do this.

Noue 0:39
I'm excited to Okay,

Elle 0:42
first question. Basically ask everyone. When did you realize you wanted to be a writer?

Noue 0:47
Okay, so, I the stock answer that I've been giving that is actually accurate is that I, I had always kind of wanted to be a writer, I'd always been writing like when I was in fourth grade, I used to write these really not elaborate stories that I unfortunately had to inflict on my classmates, and I love and it was it was great. And I you know, I really dug like the, the the creating of stories and sharing them with people, but it didn't really think I could do it. And there was a moment like in my teens when I like I said, I really love movies and TV and stuff. And so I like wanted to be the next Quentin Tarantino but I didn't want to. I didn't really want to direct I wanted to be a screenwriter and then I wanted to be Carrie Fisher when I discovered what a script doctor was. I worship Carrie Fisher, okay, like that. And so then I that was what I wanted to do for a really long time. And then I was like, okay, wake up. You have to have a real job.

Elle 1:54
Oh my god. Nora Ephron.

Noue 1:57
I get it. I get it. Love Nora Ephron really love Nora Ephron. Like, hey, When Harry Met Sally is like, who foundational Have you ever read short stories? I haven't. I haven't actually read any Nora Ephron. I just I've only consumed her like media.

Elle 2:15
Okay, the short story is that she because, you know, she wrote for The New Yorker and things and she has these anthologies now that they have collections of her New Yorker short stories, and they're just an absolute delight, and I highly recommend them. Oh, I'll definitely look those up. Yeah. Especially if you're like a film fan. Like because she has a very, I this is weird to say, but she has a very filmic quality to her writing.

Noue 2:39
I get that I get that. No, I do. Because I've been told that I'm not tooting my own horn, but I've been told that myself like that. They can you can see it. But you know what, I'll say that. That is really great. But it has its drawbacks, too, because I know that people really got on Dan Brown about that same thing. Like he's his, like the Vinci code. You could see that movie before you ever saw the movie. And it was very filmic. And, you know, so it's a pejorative and it's a compliment. So I think for Nora Ephron it's probably a compliment. And for me, it might be a pejorative.

Elle 3:18
Ah, no, stop it. I think you know what, I think it just depends what you like, right? And for me, because my first I mean, my first step into writing was I wanted to be a playwright. I wanted to be a playwright, screenwriter, you know, TV writer, like, that's where I was. And so funny, I was recounting my, my one shot that I blew the other day, like, my one big shot, and I blew it. And so I come from that background. And so, so transitioning to novel writing, I, you know, I enjoy reading novels that are cinematic, that's what I love. So, so I think it just depends, like, you know, what you like, and I like the cinematic stuff.

Noue 4:05
Yeah. So, I mean, I agree. I, I am totally that way to, to answer your question. I, I, for a long time, I just didn't think that that was like viable after I kind of realized that, you know, the screenwriting thing wasn't going to work for me. I mean, I applied to a couple programs and stuff like that. And I was a communications major in college and with a focus on like, mass media, and then I just was like, okay, but you and you need a real job. A real job. Writing it's not edible. It's not, you know, it's too hard on the stomach. I, you know, decided to, I decided to do other things and but I kept writing. It's just writing that I was doing for myself. And Go ahead. Can

Elle 5:02
I ask you? Are you comfortable with saying what you're doing? You can be very vague. I'm just always curious what people's day jobs

Noue 5:08
are over. Well, uh huh. So I always think of myself as kind of a journeyman for a while have been, I had been going to school for nursing, and I've kind of, well, once I got the book deal, I kind of, like, flow down on that kind of pulled back from that. But I've been working. I've been working in like, the nonprofit world, I worked for Princeton University for seven years. Wow. And, and before that I worked for, you know, other schools and after school programs and that sort of thing. So I was like, I guess, I guess you could say, I was always like, somewhere in the like, education or not me, never me teaching anyone anything. Like as like support staff to like, okay, ational organization, okay. Okay,

Elle 5:57
but you've, you've gone through nursing school, that's freaking hard,

Noue 6:00
as well. Yeah. And ultimately, like, sort of fruitless. And so I kind of, I decided to change sort of change direction more recently. And it's been kind of hard to kind of give that up. But I think, because this was something that was far more writing was something that was far that speaks to me far more than nursing, even though I liked the nursing aspect, too. I kinda was like, okay, it's okay, to let that go. Because you're doing, you're doing something else worthwhile that, like, feeds you.

Elle 6:39
Um, I'm curious because you are sort of like this closet writer, right? Just doing it for yourself. Most definitely. At what point were you like, Oh, I think I think I'm gonna try for that book deal or try for that agent or whatever that like, what was the what was the what was the inspiration? What What was the prod that sort of

Noue 6:56
all credit goes to my friends. So I very this is so funny. And because this is themed scenes, I'm going to be really frank. So I discovered Tumblr, because I saw some like, racy like Tumblr out in the world, like some real Tumblr feed. And I was like, what is that with? Tumblr? So I

Elle 7:23
got a little eye popping. Oh,

Noue 7:25
yeah, sure. Did until until Apple got a hold of it. Shade no shade. But anyway, Apple and Yahoo. But yeah, so I joined Tumblr in like, late, no, early 2013. Okay. And it was right around the time that I had started watching the show. And I was really into the show, and I discovered on a month later because I this is what I do with social media, like I'll join and then not do anything for years, almost to the point that is passe. And then I'm like, oh my god, this is so great. Have you heard of

Elle 8:12
and every time I every time I sign up, I'm like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this because I'm always late. And then no.

Noue 8:24
And that's basically what happened. I mean, like, people would argue that Tumblr was already different by 2013 but I didn't really do anything with Tumblr until I discovered that the fandom that up for that show that I really liked, had a very nice like Tumblr presence and so I started like dipping my toe into like fandom and fanfiction. Oh yeah. When can I

Elle 8:49
ask what show it was or if you don't have to, again you don't have to say you can be like, No, we can leave that behind.

Noue 8:54
Well, I don't want to say only because it influenced my book and I don't want people to look at look at the old stuff. Look at not even that it's not that because I'm not ashamed of my my fanfiction like background. I don't want them to look at the book and think that what they're seeing is the characters from the the fandom I was in.

Elle 9:24
Oh, okay. I see what you mean. I see what you mean. Yeah, I see what you mean.

Noue 9:28
I because kids that can just shade things and it's hard to shake like once I found out that 50 Shades of Grey was what was it Twilight fanfiction? I couldn't unsee it. I just couldn't. Like it didn't matter what was going on. It didn't matter. Jamie Jordan could have just kept strips completely naked stood completely buck naked in the middle of the screen and I still would be seeing Edward with his shiny body. With Twilight Yeah. Like I just, it was just hard to unsee. So I that's the only reason it's not. It's not like a shame thing or anything, I just don't want to color. Right people, you know, perception, so, but I but in that fandom, there were so many talented writers and particularly other black women who were really they were really ardent fans, and they were incredibly talented. And I sort of fell in with them. And I mean, there were lots of other talented women in the fandom that were not black, but I just, you know, a lot of the women that I got gravitated to where other black women, and we started, like writing as a collective. Oh my god, that's so cool. Yeah. And then, and then what happened was one of them this intrepid like, my hero. Who hoo is the writer on her own. I can't wait until her book comes out. She said, Hey, do you want to do pitch? Pitch wars? What's the pitch wars? What's that? What's?

Elle 11:08
And she was like, you have to go to Twitter. And you're like,

Noue 11:13
exactly, because I was like, I haven't used Twitter since 2013. And I'm not joking. So she was like, yeah, do you want to do pitch wars? And I? And I said, Okay, sure. And it was like, July and pitch wars, like pitch wars, the the full event, not just the pitch, the Twitter pitch contest, right, actually is in September. So she was like, Well, can you pull together a story in two months? A bit. And I was just like, No, but I can try. And so we all just decided to try it was about five of us. And we just decided to try and that just started it. Like, it just started and she's so together. She's so organized. She used to be in the military. So she's got that decision. Yeah. And that like, you know, very organized like since I'm, I'm a scatterbrain I am disorganized my life and my house is in chaos, but she has just

Elle 12:21
come on over.

Noue 12:24
Sorry, is that not? Well, it's not her story she has I always tease her about her spreadsheets. So she said, Okay, if we're serious about this, no, because she lives her life by spreadsheet, okay. That she's gonna die when she hears.

Elle 12:40
I don't always like slightly horrified yet always. Like, I wish I could do that.

Noue 12:44
I admire it so much like a teasing. It's so it's, it's, it's love because I'm so I so appreciate. I'm so appreciative of it. Yeah. And I'm so envious of her ability to do that. And she just like came to came to it with this, that that kind of same military efficiency. So she was like, if you really want to be your writer, then you have to do this, this this you have to learn like how what the word count is for your genre. You have to you have to first decide what genre you want to be in you. You know, you got to get an query, you got to get an agent then you got to get a book deal. Like she just laid it all out. And got me like podcasts that she told me she wanted me to listen to which but

Elle 13:33
persevered, though let's let you didn't need

Noue 13:36
them. And, and so like and it's thanks to her really I mean, dragging me like she was she she threw me on her shoulder, like, dragged me through the whole process. And that's where I that's how I got to where I am now. I can't even pretend it was any other way. I can't pretend that it was my own gumption or my own initiative or anything she kept dragged me kicking and screaming through the whole process.

Elle 14:05
So did you end up getting a pitch war meant like, I know it's not really like winning pitch wars but did you end up with I think it's like the mentorship that you get Oh, actually,

Noue 14:14
I did it. Whoa, what that's so funny is that I didn't but what I had at the end of pitch Wars was a completed manuscript.

Elle 14:23
Amazing. You got it done in two

Noue 14:25
months. I will I had the seeds for it already. And so I just wrote it like it was it kind of poured out of me and so but that was definitely like first draft.

Elle 14:39
So wasn't what was this the first draft of long past summer which is your debut which we will be talking about? Is this was that the very first the nugget of it?

Noue 14:50
The nugget of full manuscript I had like something that was more like a short story. Okay, so I wanted something that was more like this. 30,000 wrote words and by the time I was done I had 110,000 words. Well, I write I overwrite. It's like it's my cross to bear I just write it's why take two words to say what you could say with 10? Ah,

Elle 15:19
so So what did you, what did you get the word count down to if you were at one time,

Noue 15:24
who I mean, people who see my book will look can attest to the fact that it is long. It I got it down to about 105 104.

Elle 15:35
And Harlequin didn't care.

Noue 15:37
They were, listen, I was shocked. I had, I managed to get it down to 103 When I submitted it to them, and then I ended up ballooning again, and my editor like, I definitely don't want to say to people, other people, that their editors will be this nice, or that they are publishing company will be this accepting. So definitely stay under hundreds. Not be me,

Elle 16:07
do not do what I did.

Noue 16:08
Do not do what I did. Like there was I mean, and that's also part of it, too. There was such a like it. What would you call it? Like, I was so naive about it. Like I didn't even know my friend had given me this, you know, told me what the word count for certain things were and I knew that I was well over. It still didn't stop me from like submitting and stuff, because I didn't really know any better. And I figured if the story was good enough, they would forgive me the extra 10,000 word.

Elle 16:43
Yeah. See, you know what, and I think that that's kind of the point. Like, I think that's really the key is that if it takes 100,000 words to tell the story, it takes longer those students story. Agree it? Do you know what I mean? So I think I kind of feel like the word count thing can be a little bit arbitrary.

Noue 17:03
I mean, I definitely noticed that it's arbitrary. Once you're a successful writer, I mean, again, shade no shade, like once, you know, once you're like a Daniel feel, or at least like with, it doesn't matter how hard your book is, as I as you know, by the bricks that they feel feel right. Like, they're door stoppers. I am not I liked that Dale steel. So that was no, that was no, there was no shade in that. But I'm just saying, you know, there's a point after which your success says, you know, success says never having to stop writing. Right?

Elle 17:39
Well, I know. It's like also with like, Well, I mean, I guess it's a little bit different, because it's more it's fantasy romance, like, the Court of Thorns and Roses. That's your like, you look at that book. And that book is a big book.

Noue 17:49
I mean, you could kill someone with that book, you could bludgeon them with,

Elle 17:53
right, but but I guess because it's like Rome. It's like, fantasy romance more that like, you know, fantasy is given a lot more words.

Noue 18:02
Exactly. A fantasy, though. Yeah, fantasy is allowed a lot more like the fantasy for fantasy, you can go up to 100. And I think 30,000 words and still be considered within the, the guidelines, like sometimes

Elle 18:18
they go to like, 200. That's

Noue 18:23
exactly. George RR Martin. Like, attest to that. Yeah, like, but, yeah. So because that the claim is because, you know, they're doing a lot of world building, which I completely understand. And so it takes time to do set all the settings. So, you know, I

Elle 18:41
mean, in fairness, though, I think Romans in particular, also does a lot of world world building. I just think that because our most well, some of us, not all of us, like, you know, our writing contemporary, you don't have to necessarily explain this newfangled cell phone technology. Everybody knows that, you know, so you so there are sort of like, you know, cues there that people can you don't need to explain, but at the same time, we're still building worlds.

Noue 19:12
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, in rom coms alone. You're building a world where everything kind of works out and you know, everything is cute like a pratfall in the middle of a restaurant. It's cute as opposed to mortifying.

Elle 19:27
Wow, yeah. Wow, yeah. Okay, so now if you are on steamy Tumblr it's just so funny because I'm thinking of like, you know, steamy talk, and I'm like, wait, but there's steamy Tumblr. Yeah, so funny to think about. Does that mean would you were you were writing graphic scenes on Tumblr? Um, well,

Noue 19:55
I wasn't. Oh, reading them. You

Elle 19:59
were right. reading them.

Noue 20:00
I was not writing them I was reading. Actually, Uber. The funny thing is, I was super conservative. In my in my fanfiction like, I mean, I have one that was actually quite popular where they're apart for most of it and then they like, kiss and I think like, penetrates her digitally and it's like all about like stars and sparks and fireworks. I didn't even really describe what was happening because I was just like I can't do which is you know what, it's really funny because I had I had been I read romance as a kid, like very briefly, I only discovered romance. I mean, I knew about romance because badeen Funnily enough, my stepfather was a romance reader. Really? Yeah. He loved it loved it all. So what's so funny is I thought it was I thought they were my mother's books because my mother is a just she she's a bibliophile, like she reads and reads and reads. I love her to death we had growing up I had bookcases and bookcases of books. And she, she reads, mysteries espionage, crime fiction, like that sort of thing. That's her thing. But there were all these like, Day of feel Jackie Collins, like, what? What, what, what is her name? woodwinds. What is? Oh, what is it Barbara what it was, as well. She's, like Judas, not McNaughton, and like, all that old stuff with like Fabio on the cover, and I assumed those were my mother's book. And then when she and my stepfather broke up, I was like, your books that you like, those are my books. Probably your stepfather. Oh, my God.

Elle 22:02
Did you ever did it? I'm just kind of curious. Did you ever talk to him about what he enjoyed? Because it's I know, men read romance, but it's rare. It's I've always like wondered, like, for what?

Noue 22:14
Yeah, what are they getting out of it? Yeah. I had never spoke to him about it. Because I don't know if it was embarrassment, because I did have like, it's like, a lot of people. Well, no, I shouldn't say that. Because I've now met a lot of Romance Writers who read romance since they were children. And you know, unapologetically, whereas for me, it was, it was a little like more undercover. And again, I only so we didn't talk about it. All the books, but we didn't really talk about it. And so I got my I didn't read any of the books that he had. I think eventually I read like, lucky or chances or something like that. But that might have been the only one and and then but I bought two books for a quarter each at a library sale, hardback, Harlequin books, and read them and completely fell in love. I was just like, Oh my God, these are so amazing. But what also happened was I was like, this is not realistic. This is not real life. There are no happy I mean, I was a teenager. Okay. Well, I was on my way to be a teenager as so, you know, I was horribly dated. So I was like, This is not real everything. Yeah, exactly. I will not be reading these. These are just the way to get your heart broken. And so I started reading other genres of fiction and like lipstick and stuff like that. And it wasn't until I got into college and had some friends who were romance readers and stuff. And they kind of slipped slowly brought me back into the fold. So by the time by probably the late, like, ought so like, oh, 809 that when Amazon like Kindle publishing sorts really kind of blew up and stuff. I started buying a lot of those like, like, because they were only like nine, nine cents and like $1.99. And so I started buying a lot of those. And I loved them, and I was just eating, like popping them like Tic Tac. And then I said I could do this. So I started writing all this like really explicit stuff. And I was just like, you could not ever show this to anyone. Oh my god. Okay, so

Elle 24:36
this was pre Tumblr. Yeah, this was pre Tumblr, Tumblr, so yeah, in your notebooks or whatever you were writing in. You have like this treasure trove of erotic fiction.

Noue 24:48
Yeah. And then but I just couldn't. I just couldn't bear to like the idea of doing it. But it fanned the flames of my like interest, but I just couldn't see myself sharing it with anyone and so Tumblr was where I felt started to feel free to share but then I was still too nervous about sharing like more explicit themes. So I was reading for like, five star like hot hot, hot hot stuff, but I was writing like, one star

Elle 25:20
one to the Peppa

Noue 25:25
Pig gaze lovingly into each other's eyes and bite touch index fingers.

Elle 25:33
Writing like Christian romance on

Noue 25:37
basically, but in your

Elle 25:39
no books. Okay. Oh my god, this is fascinating. You really this closet erotic romance writers? Yeah,

Noue 25:45
no, definitely, definitely.

Elle 25:48
When you started, you know, pen to paper, pre Tumblr? Was it? Was it awkward for you at first or were you just late? Because it's sort of like that I did dance like no one's watching. Like, was that the sort of thing where you were just dancing? Like no one was watching, because nobody was watching?

Noue 26:04
Well, that was it like, so I was writing all this stuff. And as I was writing it, like the desire to share grew, I really wanted to share. And it was like, I was really kind of repressed, like, because I was like, I want to put this out into the world. I'm so concerned about the reception, I'll get that I couldn't bear to do it. And it was Tumblr, the reason I always kind of start the story and Tumblr, like, you're, you're kind of getting an exclusive where I go back further than that. But the reason I really started with fanfiction was just because you were so anonymous. So I could just be stories out into the world and kind of get feel the love, and you know, the light criticism that was needed, you know, about certain things to, to like, start to really hone my writing. And so like, that was the beginning of me kind of coming out of the closet. Wow.

Elle 27:06
That's really cool. So you know, what, what were you because I know that you said, you know, you're scared of the reaction, right, that you would get for the writing. And, and so like, what what did you sort of imagine was going to happen? Like, what was that? What was that? Like? Because it was clearly a block that was holding you back? So I'm kind of curious, like, what that block was like, was it? Oh, they're gonna hate it because my prose is purple? Or was it like, I mean, because for me, it's like, oh, shit, my mother's sitting on my shoulder. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm kind of curious what what that block was for you.

Noue 27:40
They were to the mother sitting on my shoulder was definitely one of them. Although, luckily for me, my mother doesn't read romance. I didn't have to worry about my actual mother reading it. But like, the mothers of the world, and people that knew me, and like my father, who would definitely read it and my stepmom. And my stepfather who would definitely read, like people who knew me, I was just terrified that they would know, they read it, and they now I'll be really honest with you. Like, they'd read it. And they'd look at me and they'd be like, Wow, you're really a freak.

Elle 28:24
Well, and honestly, I mean, you know, and I understand that fear, you know, because I think it's that sort of, like, you know, when somebody says, Oh, what do you what do you write? Oh, well, I write romance. And, you know, I've also written urban fantasy. That's how I started and like, it's really funny because the reaction to people I'm sorry, I hate to gender this, but it's almost always men. You know, if my husband's with me, they'll look at him and be like, Whoa, you're lucky go. But you know, when I said I, you know, when I say to people, oh, well, you know, I wrote my first and nobody ever said to me, Wow, what's it like to slay vampires? Do you know like, nobody said that? You know, so I mean, why do you think that I'm having like this like wild upside down swing Sachs at home with you, but you can't fathom that I might be out there staking vampires and putting hexes on people like what?

Noue 29:15
How? It's true. It's true, but I just it you know, it's one thing to know it intellectually and then it's another thing to like, know, in your heart and I mean, I literally seriously considered what when my book came out, ripping out the pages of the chapters with the sex scene in it before I gave it to my family.

Elle 29:37
Oh my god. So this is like still kind of like this. This discomfort is ongoing, I guess. Yeah. My mind to

Noue 29:44
it is, I'm trying I'm starting to because the reception for my family has been so nurturing and so welcoming, and they're just so proud of me that I've it's, it's starting to help me like let some of that go. But There is still you know, those moments where I talk about someone's head between someone's legs. And you know, I just like

Elle 30:11
over the summer, this was like a couple of weeks ago, I saw my aunt and like, she was talking about it. And she's like, Oh, I have another book coming out in October. I was like, Oh, yeah. And another book came out. She's like, it's probably time I started reading your books. Hon. I was like, Oh, I don't know.

Noue 30:26
Exactly. Like, I'm

Elle 30:27
not sure you want to do that.

Noue 30:30
A that? Oh, my Lord. I was like, I

Elle 30:34
mean, I can't stuff up, you know if this is really comfortable.

Noue 30:42
Exactly. How about how about you let me give you a copy myself. heavily edited.

Elle 30:49
Just give me your love and support without reading my shit. Oh, good. We're fine. We're fine. So okay, you so when you got the book deal, and knowing that this was a block for you? Were you ever like, maybe I should change it make it sweet? Like, was there ever a question or you were just like, the scenes or the scenes? And this is the book I'm writing. And it's door wide open and people are having sex?

Noue 31:19
Yeah, no, that was it? Definitely. I mean, there was definitely not a question about that. I didn't, there wasn't a moment where I thought, Oh, well, they'll just hold hands. It was kinda like, I don't know what I will do when my family sees this. But it's going to have to be what it's going to have to be just because not to say that I There haven't been some really sweet romances that haven't been like I just read romantic agenda, the romantic agenda by Claire Khan. And it's because the, the character is Ace, there's no sex in it. Okay. And it was an I, it's one of the books that I've enjoyed the most, like this year. And just because she did such a great job of like, creating a romance that it didn't need. And I know, I know that from other things, but because like I said, I didn't, there were years in which I didn't read romance. And so what happened was, I was just getting the romance from other other genres. So I read, like, Interview with a Vampire and swoon over, you know, Louis and Marius, or whatever. But there was no sex in that book. And so that, so I can do that. But personally, I love my chili pepper.

Elle 32:51
When you first started writing, you know, even Was it weird for you? I'm kind of curious, like, how did you approach? How did you approach writing the steamy boats, I guess? Or maybe how do you approach you know, maybe it hasn't changed or hasn't evolved at all?

Noue 33:06
It? It honestly, it has. Well, it did in terms of how much how graphic I want it to be. And I'm and I'm still working on that because there's a level of graphicness that was in my personal writing that I have not been I've not yet felt comfortable putting into my my writing for like, publishing

Elle 33:33
because I read you see me saying

Noue 33:36
Well see that's it right? Like I thought I thought that I had been relatively circumspect and I have since learned from all the reviews that I've gotten that I wasn't a circumstance back like I thought I was

Elle 33:53
so now I'm really curious like, like, as far as the chili peppers go, right. Like, like, what like how many is is the scene that we're going to? I'm going to read from versus the stuff that you have like tucked away that you haven't shown anyone Yeah,

Noue 34:09
well, I think that the stuff that I haven't shown is like five no question so you're right on this one like what I thought it was like a three I very seriously thought it was like maybe a 2.5 or three like rounding up to three

Elle 34:26
shit I need you to send me like because here's the thing right? I call it like on tick tock there was like this. There's like this been like this weird thing going on tick tock badly. And it's something like medium steam books. People are like mediums and I'm like, I don't even know what that is. And my medium steam because my like because like my last book people all of a sudden started like giving chili peppers and I've never gotten chili pepper reviews for my edit. I've always written the certain steam level. And so I'm getting like three chili peppers and I was like, Ah, I always thought I was kind of For five, what's three? So I'm like, I don't know. So now I'm like, maybe I'm medium stupid, maybe I'm not fullsteam. And so I'm kind of like, I want to know what a five is.

Noue 35:12
Well, I, I, I thought that I would have I would give like, who's like a five to me?

Like, okay, so I think I've always thought of like, Helen Hong is like, maybe a four. Okay? And, like Katie Roberts, like, like, yes. Like, she's, she's a fighter. She's, she's like, A, she's, she's like a 4.5 to a five. Like, she's she goes, she's going there.

Elle 35:50
So what makes it that like, what makes it the five that was it the language? Is it that like, what makes

Noue 35:55
me it's the language, okay? It's the language. It's the words that you feel comfortable using. It's the scenes that you feel comfortable describing? Like, I mean, we you said that we can be graphic, right? So on

Elle 36:12
this point? Oh, yeah. So absolutely. So

Noue 36:16
if a woman's like gagging on a penis, then that's a five, that's a five with a star flash and like fireworks, like, if it's a five, you know? If, if, if there's two men, it's a five for three or four. Or a beast? Or an alien, a blue alien with a spur.

Elle 36:44
So it shouldn't be a five.

Noue 36:47
Yeah, that to me. I mean, if you were very like if you like, obscure did a little with like slightly flowery language or something. There's a there's, there's a way in which you could write like a Minaj. With with that, that would only end up being like a four. But I just, to me the nature of there being more than two partners in and I know that makes me sound like an old old lady. But to me, if there's more than two people in a bed, we're you're definitely upping the ante. You're up

Elle 37:32
a knockin level. Yeah.

Noue 37:33
If you're talking about a person with an appendage that's like the size of your fist,

Elle 37:39
like a mile.

Noue 37:42
That is definitely like the without question. It doesn't even really matter what you're doing with it. Like it's just it's the five.

Elle 37:52
This is actually really helpful.

Noue 37:55
These are new way Kerwin rule. Like I don't know anybody else. These are my rules like that. To me. Those those things are very, like, if there's a fist up somewhere. Definitely.

Elle 38:14
You know, there's a fist somewhere you don't normally find.

Noue 38:17
Exactly then that definitely. If there's I'll go in even into horror, if there's tape somewhere that there's not normally tea. Oh, you know, like, anything, anything that gets really wild and I love it. I'm not saying I don't. I just didn't like that. Five, five. That's where I'm tapping out. I'm like, okay, okay. Yeah. We have five folks with five and everybody claps like the NASA control.

Elle 38:54
Oh, my God, I can't believe you brought up teeth because I remember reading a book and I can't remember what book it was about a vagina that had teeth.

Noue 39:02
I mean, they exist.

Elle 39:04
Did we read the same book? Have you read?

Noue 39:08
But I just know that that that one of those for me? Yeah. And

Elle 39:13
I was kind of like,

Noue 39:14
oh, how? Oh. You know, the teeth might not necessarily be doing a bad thing. It's just there.

Elle 39:24
And then I was like, Wouldn't it be great if everybody's vagina on teeth like?

Noue 39:29
Well, I think so. I agree. I totally agree. I was like that. What is it vagina? dentata I'm like, I'm for it. Make that happen?

Elle 39:45
I wanted to ask you, okay. long past summer, you're just came out. Oh my god, I love it. One of the things that really got me about this book is that it's about the it's obviously about this romantic relationship but it's also about friendships and friendships falling apart. Am I right here? And my following? Yeah, yeah. And so and so that there was this sort of strong element of women's fiction going on, I felt like in addition to the romance,

Noue 40:15
and you know, it's so funny, because in our like, pre briefing, you said, you know, I don't even understand why those are two different categories. And I agree with you in that. I mean, I understand that there's some women fiction that if it's, if it involved a woman, it's woman fiction, right, like as a main character, it's fiction. But and some, some of those things don't have romance in them. But the idea that romance is not women's fiction is weird to me. And yeah, I mean, or at least, romance with women as central characters. Right? Exactly. Yeah, that that's, that's weird to me. And so I kind of, to me, and especially since I'm not really writing on rom com, it's much more important to me, to fill out the characters, particularly that protagonist, female protagonist, world, like I, there's more going on for her. Any of I should say, any of my characters than just the romance that she's entering into? So was it my intention to make it with women's fiction? Not at all, but if giving her a greater world to inhabit makes it women fiction, and I asked, Will you take it?

Elle 41:36
I'll take it. Yeah. Because I just was, like, you know, reading the description and reading through, you know, reviews and stuff like that. I was like, whoa, this, you know, this is like, this is definitely straddling that women's fiction romance line. And, and I actually really love those books. Because you get a richer, I feel like you get a richer experience as a reader. Agreed, you know, and I mean, and that's not fair, because I love romance, too. But the ones the shows that I that the shows, the books that I am really, really drawn to the ones that I'm going to read over and over and over and over again, are the ones that leaned towards women's fiction, because we're getting such a rich story, you know, and the characters and being like, really invested very heavily invested in the characters and what happens to them?

Noue 42:22
Agreed. Agreed, but those are my favorites, too.

Elle 42:26
Yeah. And then I also kind of dug how there's a third kind of love triangle in this book.

Noue 42:33
So that was not my intent. Like, I mean, I like a love triangle. I'm not going to be I'm not ashamed to say it. Like I know a lot of people.

Elle 42:44
I love it. Good luck. I know it makes people so angry, but I'm just like, give me all the love triangles.

Noue 42:51
And I'll go a step further and really say something absolutely last blasphemous. I don't like cheating in real life. But I don't mind it in book. And I know that that is like the absolute loucon That you cannot cross. If I understand that, and I've not tried I Will not I I vowed to my readers that I will not be writing a romance that has cheated and I can't guarantee for anything else, but I don't have that but I just I like I like complicated. I really like complicated, it's love triangles make things complicated. And cheating makes things complicated. And like I like what everyone's calling it messy, like everybody who's not everybody, but a lot. I've gotten a lot of feedback, where they're just like, this is this look messy, messy, messy. And I'm like, I will take it. I love it. I love angst. I love longing. I love a slow burn. And I love complicated, messy thing.

Elle 43:56
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the cheating thing is really interesting, because they're also sort of, I guess, I don't know if it's like levels of cheating. But I didn't think I didn't think this counted is cheating. And then somebody No, no. Well, no, I mean, there was there were I had before my characters got together. My main male character was in a compromising position with somebody else but but there wasn't I specifically left it a little bit obscure, so that you didn't quite know if anything had happened or whatever. And I got called out like, I hated this book because he cheated. And I was like, technically No, they weren't together.

Noue 44:38
Yeah, no, I got that too. No, I got I read a Goodreads review where the person knocked it a star too, because they felt like there was some emotional cheating going on. Oh, I and I, I hadn't really think about that. And I was like, No, I don't I reject that because I was really specific. About what I said was going on and what I was trying to show was going on. And I said, the only workplace where I could see, there being even a hint of that is this whole thing where I keep thinking of Ross and friends like we were on a break. Like, you might have thought we were still together, but we were on a break.

Elle 45:31
No, it's true. It's true. And I do know that sometimes some readers, even if you're on the break, right, and we're talking years, years, like we're losing, this is like a second chance. 10 years later, there's this like, I can't believe that these people went on with their lives and had sex with other

Noue 45:49
people. No, I know. I know. And that is so weird to me. Like, I noticed that particularly. It's so funny. And just to bring it back to fanfiction for a second, I noticed that a lot in fanfiction that they read that a lot of readers require fidelity. Like sort of, almost, it's unrealistic to me. And I don't mean to and I'm not trying to, again, like I said, in real life, that is like a mathema. But in writing, like, I just feel like there's, it's there's there's room for a lot more complication. And, you know, if to ask someone to be in real life, people understand it. But in books, I think it gets a little idealized. What to ask someone to be faithful for decades, is a little unrealistic, like, right, like, I mean, why would they do that? Why would they put their whole life on hold for that, especially with no guarantee that the person is coming back? Or maybe the person's dead? So like, they can't come back? So why would you be expecting them to just cut off this whole aspect of their life? Right, in terms of their love and that sort of thing? Because they're not with the person that they want to be with? And I just thought it was more realistic to say, Yeah, well, they did other things, they loved other people, it's just that they love this person, the most.

Elle 47:19
Right. And I think that's key. I think that like, we can love other people, it just sort of like, sometimes you never know, if it's a second chance, for example, like sometimes that that love, you don't necessarily lose it, right? Like, you know, like, even though you split up, like there's that sort of like yearning that's still there. But of course, you can move on with your life and fall in love with somebody else, it doesn't negate the love that you feel for this other because like, humans are complicated. Exactly. You know, we're like, super complicated beings. And so you can, I kind of feel like there's this, like, it's either or you're either in love or not, but I think that, you know, having been married for 20 odd years, like, I mean, I'm not saying I don't love my mom. But you know, that the love kind of waxes and wanes, sometimes,

Noue 48:11
I used to call it like, the flip. But I realized, you know, in my old age that it happens multiple times, I used to say that there, there's a moment in a marriage, where the and I say this, as a person who's only witnessed marriages, I've not been married. But there's a moment where the person who was the most in love, when you started out, is not the most in love, then like it flipped, and the other person ends up and I, what I didn't understand when I was younger was that that can happen multiple times where the one person is less than love. And it's not, it doesn't say that the love is not there, it's just that in those moments, or in that time span, right, one person is more deeply invested, than the other person for whatever reason that that is, and you know, the glorious moments are when you both are in it to the same degree at the same time, right?

Elle 49:09
And it can be something as simple as, um, I don't know, like, like, I like work is putting a lot of demands on you. And so the demand of love can be very difficult to sort of juggle, right. And I hate to call it a demand, but in a way it kind of is like, like, our relationship needs that nurturing and it's work like it's Yeah, yeah. And you just don't have it in you to to do the work because of other life things that are happening.

Noue 49:39
Absolutely. Absolutely. I I actually said it, like one part at one port moment in the book. When, you know, my protagonist is really confused and she needs some like, clarity. And someone says to her, you know, Bob is not you know, it's it's not like the few Cool, it's the fire like burn, and you have to keep giving it kindling, you have to keep feeding it right? Or it'll die out. And that's why it's active, you have to keep doing it every day. Right. And sometimes, like you said, sometimes you're there other things happening. Sometimes it's, it might be even like your children, like, they just require more from you, that you've been, you can give your partner and, you know, hopefully you still have enough to not, you know, fall apart in those moments. But

Elle 50:34
I think that's where the work comes in, right? Because you've got to acknowledge that, like, if you're, if you're just gonna give in, and you're gonna say, Oh, well, you know, you're, you're going through this season of like, with, with, like, a really hectic work schedule, and you're not giving me what I need. So I'm going to walk away and get it from someplace out. Yeah, as opposed to saying, this is worth staying in and dealing with this for now, until we get to the other side of it. And then I mean, not saying you should deal with it forever and ever. But if you can, you know, a month, two months, whatever, a week later, like, get to that other side, and you can say, Okay, now, you know, now we're gonna go back to this, like, you know, go back to this partnership that we kind of lost sight of for a little while.

Noue 51:20
Exactly. I completely agree. I completely agree. I think that, you know, there's room for, and I think that's what's been so amazing about, like, romance as it's evolving is that they're, they're more spaces to tell that kind of story. But to make it more complicated than like, you know, Cinderella, or, you know, those kind of the, like, simplistic stuff, you can tell more complicated stories. And like I said, I'm willing to take it. I'm willing to eat like, triangle and messy and all that stuff, because I just don't like I love it. Get to me. Yeah,

Elle 52:05
I do, too. I do too. Oh, my God. Okay, I want to read your scene. Oh, my God. So I'm like, Oh okay. Oh my god, I totally don't cringe. It's all good. It's all good. Okay, this is long past summer, your new book? Can you set up this scene for us? Like maybe give us just a little bit of background and and let us know where we are.

Noue 52:35
Okay, so the story is, is Makayla, she's a lawyer in New York. Many years ago, 20 years ago, she was college bound, senior. So it was really the summer after her graduation from high school, she met a boy, they fell in love. But she knew that she wanted to go to New York and live a you know, a different sort of life than her small town. And so she left and she left in leaving to do that she also left him. And 20 years later, she sees a picture of herself and her friends up on a billboard. And she finds out that the company that she represents, is being sued by one of the girls in that picture. And she's the other girl in the picture. And the picture was taken by this boy that she had fallen in love with all those years ago. But now he is the ex husband of the friend. Yeah, yeah. This is complicated. Exactly. And so she's got to defend him and her company, and face her friend. And try not to fall in love with, again, fall in love again, with the boy that she loves. So many years ago, her first love. And this comes at the point where they kind of decided that it's futile, resistance is futile. I mean, he's been he's got he's been pressing his case for a long time. And she's been ignoring him and trying to like, stay away from him. But this is a they, they there was a lot of stuff that they had to get through to get to this point. And so they finally realized, Okay, we're gonna do it. And he meets her at a at a party that she's throwing, and he's in a hotel, and he's like, You know what, I'm gonna get a hotel room. Ah, yeah. And he's like, just come up. And

Elle 54:57
so we're like, we're about how far into the book. Are we here? Is this sort of like midpoint? Are we 12? Yeah. And

Noue 55:05
so it's interesting that you asked that. So it's, it's closer to the it is closer to the end. And a lot of people I noticed in a lot of reviews, they're like, Oh, well, you know, you have to wait to the end to get the like Steamy Sex. And I beg to differ. According to does it Bang, which, which counts when at what point in the book, the banging happens. My book actually bangs at the 50% mark it that I was a lot more conservative about bed banging because they were younger. And so I didn't want to be too explicit.

Elle 55:51
Right. Got it. I've never heard of does a bang.

Noue 55:53
Is that a website? It is? Yeah, it's a website on I love them. It's a website on Instagram. And all they do is tell you, does the book bang or does it not pay? And at what point in the book does it bang? You know, the 20% mark? The 25% Mark, the 50% mark?

Elle 56:12
Oh my god, amazing. I had no idea this exists. And I'm going to go find it when we're done. Because this is hilarious, does it bank. Humans are so wonderful sometimes.

Noue 56:26
Between that and the app, go P which, when in the movie, you can go in the bathroom. I'm just like, this is genius.

Elle 56:37
Sometimes, like you know, sometimes I'm just all about ready to give up on humanity. And then I hear about like, does it bang and I'm just like, really?

Noue 56:43
Exactly. We're geniuses.

Elle 56:47
Amazing. Humans are amazing. Yeah, exactly.

Noue 56:51
We're gonna save this.

Elle 56:54
One does it bang at a time.

Noue 56:57
Exactly. Okay, so we

Elle 56:59
are in McCaleb point of view. Are you writing? I know you're writing third person, but do you change which No, I

Noue 57:06
don't teach POVs Okay. Strictly from McHale's POV.

Elle 57:11
Me too. I don't change either. I like staying and my female main characters point of view. Okay, just a little snippet because I just really liked this little paragraph. Karen move closer, poised above her. His avid gaze ran the length of her body making her feel like she was burning from the inside out. His lips grazed her nose, cheeks and chin before sliding along her jaw to her neck. He dragged her dress down on covering her shoulders, while his mouth blazed a sizzling path over her hot skin. He caressed her with a reverence that ease the self consciousness so many years apart, gave and true to his word. Being in his arms was like coming home. God, I love that. I just love that. I really love that paragraph. I think it was, um, you got this sort of sense, even though it was like in her point of view, it was like she could feel that, that that he cherished her. Like every step that he was doing, made her feel cherished. And that was coming through in this paragraph like she felt cherished.

Noue 58:25
That was important to me, because like, you know, as other people have said, my main character, Mikayla is kind of frustrating. And because of the fact that she refuses to see how much this man loves her. What, to what extent he'll go for her. And, you know, this was like, not the first moment, but I wanted to make sure that in this moment, she was realizing that all the things that he'd been kind of intimating maybe not even saying explicitly, but like suggesting was true, he loved her. He he wanted her and he was just waiting for her to, you know, wake up

Elle 59:16
bounce back, again, another short, so I'm just easing you into this. It's like that, not the big the big long section is coming next. So just like, easing myself gird my loins. The solid half of his body over hers, his spicy, lush mixture of sweat, soap and aftershave. The feel of his hands and mouth on her all aroused her. Her movements became frenzied as Cameron's arms tangled with her as his shirtsleeves caught it his wrists and as she struggled to tug them off, he held her close as if fearing to be separated from her for the moment it took to relieve him of his clothing. I really love this because like, it's not that easy to get out of your clothes no and Half the time it's not even, like, you know, and I'm guilty of this where I like right, the most sultry, like, Ha disrobing is so sexy. But in reality, it's kind of not.

Noue 1:00:10
Yeah, no, I, you know, I always think of, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but Bruce Almighty, where he decides to finally like he's in he's the person who's now got been given the the powers of God, right. So he's trying to set a sexy scene for his wife to sleep together. And so he literally pulled the moon closer. So they've got this giant moon outside the outside their window, and she turns away for one second, and he just, you might have even seen the gift he like just throws his hands out and his clothes just stripped from his own body. And I'm like, yeah, it's not like that. Really not like that.

Elle 1:00:53
Or, you know, and I know, like, you know, you can do things with clothing removal that makes everything really and heightens the whole thing. But like, you know, it's like, sometimes it's just damn hard to get out of clothes. And you end up wrestling. Yeah, you know, with your clothes. Not with your Paramore, you know?

Noue 1:01:12
But yeah. All of a sudden, there's like lots more buttons and zippers and like things that you're like, wait, I was able to, like dress myself before undress

Elle 1:01:27
Yeah, all of a sudden, you're like a toddler. Like, you know, like, how do you do this? Like this is hard. Okay, keep going, diving beneath her dress camera and ventured between her legs with an eagerness that made her giggle. His hands impatiently tongue tugged her underwear aside and fingers explored her, spreading her wide while his sub cheeks abraded the supple skin of her inner thighs. His tongue glided through her folds, lingering until she arched upward currents of electric pleasure tearing through her, buzzing the length of her nerve endings. He stayed and then he stayed there applying pressure, sucking on her sensitive, swollen bud ministering to it until she trembled, crying out his name. She exclaimed it again and again, like a chant, quivering, twisting her fists into the top cover of the bed. As he gorged himself on her muscles tense all over her body, as waves overtook her, she grew louder and louder building to a screeching release that sounded foreign, even to her. God, I love that. Do you remember writing that?

Noue 1:02:34
I'm not really because this, because honestly, this whole scene had so many, like, revisions and drafts, and because I didn't fully answer your question, so when you asked me like, is it that you're, like, nervous that your parents are gonna see it? Or are you concerned that your prose is gonna be purple, and it was, it's really both, like, I'm very, I'm very concerned about writing purple prose. And so I, I, I, in my mind, I see these scenes, like I and I read these novels, where the scenes are just so good, and you're just so immersed. And I just felt like there was a disconnect for me when I was reading it. And so I had to keep going. And I had to ask, like, some friends of mine who really do good love scenes in their own books to like, advise me and it was like lots and lots of like revision to try to, like, get their points. There were other things that I really wanted to say in the scene. Were like, like, that whole thing about her cherishing him and, and acknowledging how long it's been since they've been together.

Elle 1:03:57
I love that you have this sort of, like, I don't know, like, team of writers like you that you're, you're all they're kind of helping each other. And, you know, they're for questions and like, what do you think of this and how do I fix this? Like, I think you know, sometimes writing is so solitary. Yeah. And he and I, but if there is like when I think about like my editors, or you know, our creators or beta readers, like there really is a team of people behind us kind of cheering us on.

Noue 1:04:26
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I and it's not I'm not just you know, saying it to say that I I wouldn't been I wouldn't have been able to do it without any of it like because it just it required and I mean, in some respects is almost required a lot of propping me up to because they had to be like you can do this like you can do it

Elle 1:04:50
honestly, I think that's almost half the battle, right? Like I think like because we just like I've been listening to a lot of mindset audiobooks lately because I really need a shift in my I and I, but I think that, you know, I really would be like mindset mindset and always roll my eyes, but I think there's something to it. There's really something to it.

Noue 1:05:11
Yeah, I know I get it like because you definitely have to when you're trying to explore like, parts of yourself like, I would love seeing it'd be like your sensuality or your sense of of that stuff. Like, what is it to you that sexy? Right? Definitely. It's a mindset like you have to go there.

Elle 1:05:31
Yeah. And you have to have the confidence then you can and that's a big one. A big one is huge. Do I have the confidence? Do I have the competence to write this thing? Do I have the confidence to put it out there? Do I have the confidence to release it? Do you know that it's like every step? You're like, you need a new boost?

Noue 1:05:49
Yeah, exactly. Shoulder push up

Elle 1:05:55
that infusion you know Okay. Moving on. This is this is really great because again, you go back to the the clothing. This is gorgeous. But what the hell what the hell is that he cried in frustration, sitting up on his haunches between her legs and searching for a zipper last among the rushed, asymmetrical fabric. You can't get the dress off awesome. For a moment she's still distracted by the sight of him his wide lightly freckled shoulders strong tanned arms and broad bare chest. Long ago memories of moments like this one in the garden at night by the lake and his bed years before flooded her. All the scenes of furtive meetings and secret of giggling as they hardly stripped out of cumbersome clothes. Their struggle to achieve the same shamelessly lustful ends under under similar time constraints all returned, stopped staring and help me before I rip you out of this thing. He warned with mild impatience she reached between them, and finally locating the small hidden zipper eased it down. Cameron started to peel her out of the dress slowly, like unwrapping a precious gift that in a single fluid motion, he pulled the dress up and over her head, tossing it to the floor before before falling over her again. Her prior knowledge of Him guided her movements as she touched him. His breath hitched in his throat as her hand slid slowly from his abdomen down between them. Taking him in her hand, she stroked until the grin fell from his face. Soon he sounded much the same as she had grinding out her name through gritted teeth repeatedly as his whole body tensed over hers, grimacing as he looked down between them, watching her work him in her fist, she panted in time with his moans bringing him to within a hair's breadth of climax before guiding him to her entrance.

Noue 1:07:43
Who took a lot of work shopping,

Elle 1:07:50
there was such a shift here to like, I went like it went to carnival, right? Like, it was like, two it went, it went from like, funny. And then carnival as well. It was like, there were a lot of chefs. So it was like, funny, and then wistful, and then carnal. And then something more meaningful.

Noue 1:08:12
Yeah, well, you know, there's the hope that that, you know, that that can be, you know, sex too. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of things happening. There's always like, a lot of things happening. Sometimes people are in their heads, sometimes they're not. Sometimes it's funny, because people are like, doing wrong things or putting things in the wrong holes, or

Elle 1:08:37
that would be five chili pepper, by the way.

Noue 1:08:40
I would definitely be.

Elle 1:08:44
And I loved how you got like, all of this into like, like, four paragraphs. Like there's a that's a lot of work. That's amazing.

Noue 1:08:52
You know, it's so funny, because I, I kept beating myself up that this whole thing wasn't longer. You know, I just was like, ah, you know, you this is this is you a novice, like trying to put together something that's like, suitably hot, and you just don't have the capacity for it. So you're like flying through it, as opposed to like, really taking your time and like, like, you know, steeping yourself in it.

Elle 1:09:21
Wait, did you think you weren't taking your time because this

Noue 1:09:26
I just I mean, but as we've discovered, like, I don't know if I have a good understanding of what other people get from this scene. Like, I don't

Elle 1:09:35
Yeah, yeah. I think none of us know. Right? Like, we just like, write our shit and send it out and hope that people get it. Yeah, you know, but yeah, there are things where I'm just like, alright, so you might not want to know this. But in Kindle, if you buy your own book, you can see what the popular highlights are.

Noue 1:09:55
My friend told me that and she said that she couldn't wait to see what more i What's

Elle 1:10:01
really funny is like, I look and I see what and I'm like, why they I like that. Like some stuff where I'm like, really why they like that. Like, that's weird. I

Noue 1:10:14
never expected that, you know, I could see that. And it's so funny because I know as a reader, I usually read without the highlights on but sometimes they're already on when I open the book. And I'll see that, you know, there's a lot of universal universality in it. Yes, the same parts that I like, I'm drawn to the same parts that hit me in the in a similar way are highlighted. And I'm like, wow, so it's you know, these things really work for a lot of people.

Elle 1:10:45
Yeah, yeah. And did did. Okay. He returned within a moment answering her call, sharing an intimate knowing smile just between them he had to go get a condom by the way. Yeah. They held each other's gaze and side and mutual satisfaction as he entered her. The Kayla's whole body tense then relax the feeling first to trepat the feeling first to trepidation, then a kind of soul deep relief only Cameron had ever given her. The welcome familiarity of his body soothe term, meaning anxieties and occupations. She yielded to him her toes curling and flexing with relish should each stroke straining on one elbow or his fingers digging into her fleshy by gripping her urging her open her repeatedly seated himself then retreated, she ache to somehow draw him closer. As if for this one moment, they could somehow occupy the same skin. I died. Really? Oh my god, yes. Oh, thank you. I died as if they could somehow occupy the same skin. I was like, Oh, I know that feeling. And I love that. Yeah. And it was such a great way to explain to describe what that feeling is because I've always found it indescribable. And that was like, yes, that's exactly it. That's exactly. That is that that is the thing. Mm hmm. So, so good. I'm just going to read this one little bit so that everybody can be like me. I want to I'm just going to leave everybody with this because I had to get left with it. So I think it's only fair that you do to at last Mikayla sank onto his chest spent, as Cameron helped her to him both stated and gasping and unable to speak. But in the silence her brain misfired still replaying his words and anxious to break free of his embrace. Even while he remained inside her. He'd been right of course this was still good and yet she could already feel it. She wasn't careful she was going to fuck it all up again. Oh my god. Oh my god. No, that means that means that means we're going to have to go pick up long past summer so that we know what happens

Noue 1:13:03
yeah, definitely.

Elle 1:13:07
I was like she just went through all of this beautiful stuff and then she's like, Oh no

Noue 1:13:16
she's just like all the you know all the old feeling came back including the feeling that she was out of fucking

Elle 1:13:26
including this bad one. Now I'm like okay, now she is going to fuck it up. You just gave us that fair warning and now she is going to fuck it up and how is she gonna fix this?

Noue 1:13:37
There you go.

Elle 1:13:39
Oh really? God.

Noue 1:13:41
Thank you.

Elle 1:13:42
This is really good. No wonder Harlequin was like 100,000 words we don't care

Noue 1:13:49
Yeah, yeah, I'm so lucky but they did say that

Elle 1:13:53
there was just like Who gives a shit this is great because it is I think that this is wonderful and and I'm excited to read the whole book.

Noue 1:14:01
Thank you.

Elle 1:14:02
I read God thank you. Thank you for coming on.

Noue 1:14:06
This was so much fun oh my god Stevie sees oh yeah like I thought I was gonna die

Elle 1:14:16
I try not to kill people. Come on.

Noue 1:14:22
You know you would never have noticed you just been like new a new modification. So what do you have coming up next?

Elle 1:14:33
Are you working on the next thing are you oh, what?

Noue 1:14:37
I'm actually working on the next thing. I have committed myself to trying to up the ante a little bit although like I said, if people are saying that it's already this one was already like quite steamy. I don't know what what what's going to happen with this but I decided that I was going to challenge myself this time to really like, kind of go for Right, so we'll see.

Elle 1:15:01
I'm just really curious, like, if you go if you're ever gonna go to the five level, and what that's gonna look like, like, I know you're ever gonna go to the five level publicly.

Noue 1:15:11
Yeah, that's it because it because I've already done some fives I just I like, this is the I'm challenging myself, not necessarily to get to five but just to like move a little bit more out of my comfort zone with like every book.

Elle 1:15:27
That's awesome. That's really awesome. So I know you say you're a technophobe, but you got to hang out somewhere and where is it on the internet?

Noue 1:15:34
So the best place to find me is Instagram new way Kirwin at Oh no, I'm at Newark New a currency that's exactly right. I don't even get how that works. So no, I'm at new acre one ad on Instagram on Twitter on my very blank Tiktok me You can also find me new acre one on Facebook and my website new acre one.com So

Elle 1:16:07
and that's an o u EKIRWAN. But I will have links in the show notes to all of this. So if you're driving don't get into an accident.

Noue 1:16:16
Don't please please. Hands on hands on the wheel

Elle 1:16:19
hands on the wheel. No I thank you so much for doing this. It was super fun.

Noue 1:16:24
Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to like chat with me and like work through all my issues. We did it the text in the mail.

Elle 1:16:37
I love it. No, I don't charge I don't charge

Noue 1:16:45
Okay,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai